FrDave of Blood of Prokopius can be a bit heavy on the Theology. But this post on the church and clergy is spot on and useful to just about anybody campaign.
I use the level equal rank in church rule myself with 3rd level being a full priest. The higher level you go the more your responsibilities become focused on the church as a whole.
Being a Catholic and a avid reader of history I read a lot about my faith. But I never picked up on the distinctions between the different orders (Deacons, Priest, and Bishops) that FrDave mentions. This will very useful in as a source of ideas for fleshing out some details of my Majestic Wilderlands.
In my oldest notes for the Majestic Wilderlands I made mention of three orders. The Order of the White Rod, the Order of the White Staff, and the Order of the White Quill. The Rods were administrators and parish priests, the Staff were mendicant friars, and the Quill were scholarly Monks. Color white was because Mitra symbol was a white lion head on a red field.
At that time Mitra was a man who was elevated to godhood. By 1990 I ditched that in favor of the current myth of the goddess Mitra and the Ghinorians her chosen people. I never did much with the orders since as they were part of the "old Mitra" but the notes are still around. When it comes time to do the various religions of my setting FrDave post is going to be very helpful.
Showing posts with label religion. Show all posts
Showing posts with label religion. Show all posts
Wednesday, December 16, 2009
Saturday, October 31, 2009
More on Religion
The best source for roleplaying is GURP Religion. There is very little in the way of rules so it is usable for just about any RPG. While it may seem academic at first glance the authors explain how the various concept are applicable to a RPG campaign.
You can get the book here. The PDF here.
While more rules oriented towards GURPS. A more concise treatment that is useful for D&D campaigns is the recently released Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics. The Dungeon Fantasy series is about how to use GURPS to run D&D style Dungeon crawls.
While it doesn't tell how to build a religion Harnmaster: Religion is a in depth look at a ten fantasy religions. While written for Harn the deities can be easily adapted to other campaigns. Harnmaster Barbarian has sections on barbarian style religions.
Ars Magica has a variety of good books on religion for the medieval era (Christianity, Islam, etc).
A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe has a good section on medieval religion that has rules for the D20 version of D&D.
You can get the book here. The PDF here.
While more rules oriented towards GURPS. A more concise treatment that is useful for D&D campaigns is the recently released Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics. The Dungeon Fantasy series is about how to use GURPS to run D&D style Dungeon crawls.
While it doesn't tell how to build a religion Harnmaster: Religion is a in depth look at a ten fantasy religions. While written for Harn the deities can be easily adapted to other campaigns. Harnmaster Barbarian has sections on barbarian style religions.
Ars Magica has a variety of good books on religion for the medieval era (Christianity, Islam, etc).
A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe has a good section on medieval religion that has rules for the D20 version of D&D.
Friday, October 30, 2009
In reality evil religions don't exist.
The Blood of Prokopius is an interesting blog and has a lot of interesting posts on how FrDave Christian Faith relates to D&D and his campaign. Recently he had a post on Evil. I responded with a lengthy post on my cosmology and the theology behind it and he replied.
The main point he picked out was this statement
The problem with evil religions in D&D is that they are not realistic if they are part of a culture or nation. My definition of a evil deity is somebody like Lolth, Elemental Evil, Bane, Howard's Set, etc. They are not realistic because throughout human history cultures just don't go into worshiping evil deities. Isolated cults yes which often manifest as small groups or individuals rejecting the larger culture they are part of.
The technical definition of these type of religions is Maltheism.
This doesn't mean cultures haven't adopted religions or philosophies that were considered abhorrent by neighboring cultures. Also various cultures adopted religions that essentially turned their nations into totalitarian states with all that entails.
The "evil" religions have some fig leaf that makes it appealing to members of that cultures. Usually by preaching some type of racial or cultural superiority. The worst practices of these religions (and they can be pretty bad) are reserved for those they conquer or capture. But among those in the "in-group" the religion can be benign. The Assyrians around 800 B.C. are a good example of this.
The way I apply this to a fantasy campaign is rather simplistic. Religions involving a truly evil deity have cults and never dominate a nation or a culture. The rest have various fig leafs to make them appealing to the cultures that adopted them.
In my own campaign cultures dominated by Set are totalitarian and tyrannical in nature. The culture worshipping Hamakhis believe that the practice of human sacrifices aids the god in holding back the chaos that will destroy creation. And that culture has an ongoing reformation that is trying to return the worship of Hamakhis back to it's older form in worshiping him as the Judge of the Dead. The last evil god of campaign, Kalis, is a nature goddess of blood and revenge. She is only worshiped by cults.
The main point he picked out was this statement
My whole system came about because I wanted true evil, rejection of creation, but I wanted shades of gray in religion. In my reading I know that "evil" religion don't exist in reality.
The problem with evil religions in D&D is that they are not realistic if they are part of a culture or nation. My definition of a evil deity is somebody like Lolth, Elemental Evil, Bane, Howard's Set, etc. They are not realistic because throughout human history cultures just don't go into worshiping evil deities. Isolated cults yes which often manifest as small groups or individuals rejecting the larger culture they are part of.
The technical definition of these type of religions is Maltheism.
Maltheism (from "mal" meaning bad, or illness, and theism, from... well, theism) is the idea that god is just out to get us and that he or she or it is malicious, like a kid who keeps selecting "Monster" from the disaster menu in Sim City. A Maltheist, therefore, is someone who believes that a god or gods exist, and that they are evil, malicious, incompetent, or otherwise causing the suffering of humanity.The Cathars of southern France during the Middle Ages believed Earth was under the sway of an evil god, the Demiurge. The Demiurge was equated with Satan. But being a Cathar wasn't about worshiping the Demiurge. Their whole faith was about rejecting the world (mainly through a severe form of asceticism) so their souls would be put on the road to the realm of light where God exists.
This doesn't mean cultures haven't adopted religions or philosophies that were considered abhorrent by neighboring cultures. Also various cultures adopted religions that essentially turned their nations into totalitarian states with all that entails.
The "evil" religions have some fig leaf that makes it appealing to members of that cultures. Usually by preaching some type of racial or cultural superiority. The worst practices of these religions (and they can be pretty bad) are reserved for those they conquer or capture. But among those in the "in-group" the religion can be benign. The Assyrians around 800 B.C. are a good example of this.
The way I apply this to a fantasy campaign is rather simplistic. Religions involving a truly evil deity have cults and never dominate a nation or a culture. The rest have various fig leafs to make them appealing to the cultures that adopted them.
In my own campaign cultures dominated by Set are totalitarian and tyrannical in nature. The culture worshipping Hamakhis believe that the practice of human sacrifices aids the god in holding back the chaos that will destroy creation. And that culture has an ongoing reformation that is trying to return the worship of Hamakhis back to it's older form in worshiping him as the Judge of the Dead. The last evil god of campaign, Kalis, is a nature goddess of blood and revenge. She is only worshiped by cults.
Thursday, August 13, 2009
Polytheism Applied
Alexis give an interesting idea for incorporating deities in to a campaign here.
Here are two posts of mine that should help in implementing Alexis idea
Religion not deities
Things to consider for your religion
Here are two posts of mine that should help in implementing Alexis idea
Religion not deities
Things to consider for your religion
Friday, February 27, 2009
Things to consider for your Religion
What should go into the one page description of your religion?
Motivation
Most RPG religions have deities that are powerful beings with cosmic concerns. I deliberately chose the term powerful beings. As most deities have limits on their reach and knowledge. Sure they can smash a PC, or kingdom like a bug but in a nutshell they are thought of people who have a lot on their mind. In many ways they are like a parent to the mortal races.
This conception of deities gives us a good starting point for describing them. Think of your deity as a person with cosmic concerns. They had a beginning, they have a history. All of this shapes the personality they have today. You don't need to go into great detail, a sketch is all you need to start with.
Teachings
From the deity's motivation you can derive a set of teaching. Come up with a half dozen or so tenets.
Background
Set the deity within the history and cultures of your campaign. This is another area where you can go overboard so try to limit yourself to a paragraph. What this helps with is to decide the scope of the religion. There are a lot of ways you can go but the main choices are cult, local, cultural, or universal.
A cult religion has a handful of followers and are mostly secretive. Cults are traditionally associated with evil gods. On the flip side nearly all religions start out as a cult at some point.
A local religion is tied to a specific place. Gods of city-states also fall into this category. For example a toad god that protect a large swamp and all those who live it. Because of the turmoil of the region he also become a protector god of refugees who traditional hid in the swamp as the invaders pass.
A cultural religion is found throughout a particular culture. Two variant to consider are cultural religions that are religions of state and it opposite a cultural religion that followed by a conquered or oppressed populace.
A universal religion is found throughout multiple cultures in multiple region. The key attribute is that they teach something that has universal appeal. For example Dannu's teachings of living in harmony with the earth, home and hearth is far more likely to be followed by many cultures than the Toad God's obession with a swamp.
Universal religions can rise by a variety of means. A varient where a culture become dominent over many regions and enough time passes where it becomes fused with the local cultures (like Rome). Another variant is continued contact with longer lived races like the elves. The continuity offered by the elves has a powerful effect on the surrounding human cultures resulting a shared core set of belief. In someways this parallels the effect of China on the surrounding regions.
Calender
This is not commonly done but I found that having some type of calender greatly add to the players sense of place. Now this does not mean I hand the player a calender of dates. But rather periodically a festival or a special day occurs. Dates to consider are Traditonal founding day, Important dates of the deity life, seasonal festivals.
Priesthood
Up to this point we have defined little that will have an impact on adventure prep. With the belief defined, a basic mythology, the background, and calender you should have enough information to setup what type of priest that follows the deity.
I find it useful not to think of the priesthood as a organization of the cleric class. But rather than a description of all those who make serving the deity their primary profession. So for the forest god he may have a order of cleric who job is to maintain sanctuaries, a order of fighter who protect the sanctuaries, and a order of rangers who patrol the woods between and carry messages between the sanctuaries.
The result should be one or more template you can use to flesh locales four your adventures. Think of the guidelines for orc tribes, and merchant caravan in 1st edition's Monster Manual.
Lay Followers
The body of the deity's believer is more than the priesthood. So having a paragraph describing what typical adherents are like will help in prepare adventures. Perhaps they live under some strict code, are they open to talking with outsiders, do they try to convert, and so on. The end result is another template you can apply to help you when you need to create a village of followers of Mitra vs a village of followers of Set.
Religious Structures
Put some thought in how temples and other important religous structures are laid out. There will be variation based on locale and regions but in general structures for religous purpose follow a pattern. Like the cross layout of many of the great cathedrals.
Miscellaneous
Finally if you have note any neat ideas you have for your religion that don't fit anywhere else. And if you need combat stats here is where they would go.
Motivation
Most RPG religions have deities that are powerful beings with cosmic concerns. I deliberately chose the term powerful beings. As most deities have limits on their reach and knowledge. Sure they can smash a PC, or kingdom like a bug but in a nutshell they are thought of people who have a lot on their mind. In many ways they are like a parent to the mortal races.
This conception of deities gives us a good starting point for describing them. Think of your deity as a person with cosmic concerns. They had a beginning, they have a history. All of this shapes the personality they have today. You don't need to go into great detail, a sketch is all you need to start with.
Teachings
From the deity's motivation you can derive a set of teaching. Come up with a half dozen or so tenets.
Background
Set the deity within the history and cultures of your campaign. This is another area where you can go overboard so try to limit yourself to a paragraph. What this helps with is to decide the scope of the religion. There are a lot of ways you can go but the main choices are cult, local, cultural, or universal.
A cult religion has a handful of followers and are mostly secretive. Cults are traditionally associated with evil gods. On the flip side nearly all religions start out as a cult at some point.
A local religion is tied to a specific place. Gods of city-states also fall into this category. For example a toad god that protect a large swamp and all those who live it. Because of the turmoil of the region he also become a protector god of refugees who traditional hid in the swamp as the invaders pass.
A cultural religion is found throughout a particular culture. Two variant to consider are cultural religions that are religions of state and it opposite a cultural religion that followed by a conquered or oppressed populace.
A universal religion is found throughout multiple cultures in multiple region. The key attribute is that they teach something that has universal appeal. For example Dannu's teachings of living in harmony with the earth, home and hearth is far more likely to be followed by many cultures than the Toad God's obession with a swamp.
Universal religions can rise by a variety of means. A varient where a culture become dominent over many regions and enough time passes where it becomes fused with the local cultures (like Rome). Another variant is continued contact with longer lived races like the elves. The continuity offered by the elves has a powerful effect on the surrounding human cultures resulting a shared core set of belief. In someways this parallels the effect of China on the surrounding regions.
Calender
This is not commonly done but I found that having some type of calender greatly add to the players sense of place. Now this does not mean I hand the player a calender of dates. But rather periodically a festival or a special day occurs. Dates to consider are Traditonal founding day, Important dates of the deity life, seasonal festivals.
Priesthood
Up to this point we have defined little that will have an impact on adventure prep. With the belief defined, a basic mythology, the background, and calender you should have enough information to setup what type of priest that follows the deity.
I find it useful not to think of the priesthood as a organization of the cleric class. But rather than a description of all those who make serving the deity their primary profession. So for the forest god he may have a order of cleric who job is to maintain sanctuaries, a order of fighter who protect the sanctuaries, and a order of rangers who patrol the woods between and carry messages between the sanctuaries.
The result should be one or more template you can use to flesh locales four your adventures. Think of the guidelines for orc tribes, and merchant caravan in 1st edition's Monster Manual.
Lay Followers
The body of the deity's believer is more than the priesthood. So having a paragraph describing what typical adherents are like will help in prepare adventures. Perhaps they live under some strict code, are they open to talking with outsiders, do they try to convert, and so on. The end result is another template you can apply to help you when you need to create a village of followers of Mitra vs a village of followers of Set.
Religious Structures
Put some thought in how temples and other important religous structures are laid out. There will be variation based on locale and regions but in general structures for religous purpose follow a pattern. Like the cross layout of many of the great cathedrals.
Miscellaneous
Finally if you have note any neat ideas you have for your religion that don't fit anywhere else. And if you need combat stats here is where they would go.
Wednesday, February 25, 2009
Religion not Deities
In the beginning of RPGS, dieties were viewed as really big monsters. The information given was nearly devoid of any information on how to actually use the deity in the campaign.
The reaction against this resulted in elaborate mythologies of near omnipotent gods. Yet largely devoid of information how to actually use this in a referee campaign. In the first case the wrong information was given and the in the second the information was on too high of a level.
It has gotten better over the years but still not enough is done. The 4th edition deity description are fairly good at giving the player the needed information for being a follower. But they lack information useful to the referee like typical temple layout, information on the how the priesthood are setup. Granted this is understandable as they are in the Player's Handbook and space is limited.
When detailing deities for your own campaign. I recommend more work be spent defining the religion not the diety. Along with what the followers believe, define how the temple are laid out, what are the important dates, and what type of hierarchy they have. All of this information is pertinent when creating adventures involving minions of that deity.
Don't get me wrong, some minimal mythology is needed as it is often the foundation for their beliefs and movitation. A good guide I found is to limit myself at the beginning to about a page worth of information (using a 10 point font).
For example when I worked with Necromancer Games this is my entry for Thor.
Thor
Thor, Battle God of Lightning and Storms, is Neutral Good. Thor is a major god in the court of Odin and in the hearts of many more popular than the All-Seer. He is known for his many heroic deeds in saving his worshippers from the depredations of monsters and giants. He eagerly rewards any follower who is willing to undertake similar quests. His domains are Air, Good, Strength, and War. His favored weapon is the Hammer. He is revered by the Skandians has shrines and temple scattered throughout the Wilderlands. Many of his clerics use the Temples of Odin as a base in their quests against the monsters of the Wilderlands.
I was limited in space so I didn't get into the details of the temple and the hierarchy. My goal was present, in as a few words as possible, a deity who was the patron of monster hunters. That they were so focused on the task that in many places they didn't have the time to build temples of their own and thus worked out of the local temple of Odin. That he was a popular among the ordinary folks which means PC who follow him have a leg up in trying for a good reaction among the peasants and townsfolk. I left out any combat stat information and only inserted the bare minimum of high level information.
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